Podcasts from around the Web

After 30 years in marketing, Melissa Puls, CMO and SVP, Customer Success & Renewals at Ivanti, has seen it all: the highs, the lows, and the evolution of marketing itself. In this episode, she shares how she’s built her career around people-first leadership, purpose-driven strategy, and performance that actually moves the business forward. Melissa breaks down why B2B and B2C are outdated concepts, why it’s time to think “business-to-human,” and how aligning marketing, customer success, and renewals can transform growth. She also opens up about lessons learned from failure, how AI is reshaping efficiency and personalization, and why transparency and data-driven decisions are a CMO’s real superpowers. Whether you’re a rising marketing leader or a seasoned exec, this episode delivers practical insights on building teams, earning trust, and driving measurable impact across the entire customer lifecycle.

What if marketing didn’t just support company strategy, but shaped it from the start? 8x8 CMO Bruno Bertini breaks down how today’s marketing leaders can elevate their role through goal-driven alignment, end-to-end customer experience, and real-world applications of AI. Bruno shares his approach to building marketing-led OKRs, driving measurable outcomes like LTV and retention, and using AI to streamline enrichment, targeting, and creative production. It’s a must-listen for CMOs who want to operate as true business leaders and make marketing central to growth.

How do you thrive in private equity while maintaining local autonomy and driving growth? Meghann McNally, CMO of Wrench Group, shares her unique approach to leading marketing in a fast-growing, private equity-backed company. From scaling brand strategies in 27 markets across 14 states to navigating the challenges of a male-dominated industry, Meghann emphasizes the importance of hands-on leadership and data-driven decision-making. She also reveals how fostering curiosity, maintaining local connections, and balancing efficiency with personal touch have been key to Wrench Group’s success.

In this episode of the State of Customer Storytelling podcast, DailyPay Director of Client Advocacy Maria Braune shares how to truly listen to your customers and get the best testimonials possible.

In this episode of the State of Customer Storytelling podcast, Chief Outsiders Partner and CMO Jeff Loeb shares how to gather customer insights and share them with the rest of your team.

In this episode of the State of Customer Storytelling podcast, Airtable Customer Marketing Programs lead Valeria Gomez shares how to show love to your customers the way you want them to show love to your company.

Thank you to the folks at Sustain for providing the hosting account for CHAOSScast! CHAOSScast – Episode 130 In this CHAOSScast episode, host introduces Rowland Mosbergen, a research software engineer at Australia’s WEHI, and discusses experiences in CHAOSS Asia and open source community connections. Rowland compares research labs to startups and explains that CHAOSS Asia’s regular online meetings help him engage with the broader open source ecosystem despite not traveling to conferences. They mention tools like the OSC DB directory for finding communities and discuss how Chaos Asia helps share events and CFPs. Rowland describes his “practical diversity and inclusion” approach: embedding inclusion into processes by centering marginalized people, sharing power, creating safe spaces, and offering online, non-exploitative open source internships that assess achievement relative to opportunity. He also describes organizing Research Software Asia Australia (RSAA 26) and supporting new Research Software Africa and Latino America conferences through shared documentation and a large, flexible volunteer committee to prevent burnout. They close with personal value-adds: Rowland’s family time and the host’s move to Bangkok. 00:00 Welcome to CHAOSScast
00:21 Meet Rowland
01:41 Startups and Research Parallels
03:04 Why CHAOSS Asia Matters
03:40 Finding CHAOSS Asia
07:03 Mapping Asian Communities
09:38 Practical DEI in Action
13:31 Internships as Micro PhDs
16:27 Conferences and Global Expansion
20:17 Building Inclusive Frameworks
25:09 Value Adds
28:03 Wrap Up and Call to Action
Panelists:
Leon Nunes
Guests
Rowland Mosbergen
Links
CHAOSS

CHAOSS Project X

CHAOSScast Podcast

CHAOSS YouTube

CHAOSS Slack

podcast@chaoss.community

https://www.wehi.edu.au/
https://www.solo.io/
[https://equersa.org/]([https://equersa.org/) - Research software Africa and Latin America
https://developers.events/#/2026/calendar - OSCDB
https://chaoss.github.io/oscdb/
https://www.practicaldiversity.org/Special Guest: Rowland Mosbergen.Support CHAOSScast

Thank you to the folks at Sustain for providing the hosting account for CHAOSScast! CHAOSScast – Episode 129
In this episode of CHAOSScast, host Harmony Elendu is joined by Matt Germonprez and Johan Linåker to explore how Open Source Program Offices (OSPOs) can use metrics to understand and demonstrate impact. The discussion centers around Chapter 6 of the TODO Group’s OSPO book and how organizations can systematically measure the value of their open source engagement. [00:02:00] Introduction to OSPOs
Johan explains what an Open Source Program Office (OSPO) is: a center of excellence that supports organizations in adopting open source strategically, aligning culture, governance, and business goals. [00:04:41] The Four Impact Areas
Matt outlines the four key impact dimensions OSPOs should measure: Partner Impact Community Impact Ecosystem (Supply Chain) Impact Organizational Impact [00:06:29] Partner Impact
How to assess which companies are contributing to the same projects, their level of influence, and how agendas align or conflict. [00:11:00] Community Impact
Measuring contributor influence, merged pull requests, leadership roles, and employee growth within open source communities. [00:15:19] Ecosystem & Supply Chain Impact
Why organizations must evaluate upstream dependencies and long-term project viability, especially in light of regulations like the Cyber Resilience Act. [00:23:00] Organizational Impact & Governance
Aligning open source strategy with business goals, managing risk, automating dependency health checks, and enabling developers to contribute upstream efficiently. [00:29:31] Metrics Over Time (Not Snapshots)
Why there is no universal red/yellow/green metric set. Context matters, and observing trends over time is critical for meaningful health assessments. [00:36:00] Resources & Working Groups
Introduction to CHAOSS practitioner guides, OSPO metrics working groups, and research publications. Value Adds (Picks) of the week: [00:39:25] Harmony’s pick is reflecting on old photos.
[00:36:10] Matt's pick is embracing the opportunity to do winter sports.
[00:37:54] Johan’s pick is to enjoy parenting moments.
Panelists:

Harmony Elendu
Matt Germonprez Guests
Johan Linåker Links
OSPO Book
TODO Group
CHAOSS Project
OpenSSF Scorecard
CHAOSS OSPO Metrics Working Group
Harmony Elendu website
Harmony Elendu LinkedInSpecial Guest: Johan Linåker.Support CHAOSScast

Thank you to the folks at Sustain for providing the hosting account for CHAOSSCast! CHAOSScast- Episode 128
Check out the original GR-OSS OUT episode on the GR-OSS OUT podcast:
https://podcast.gr-oss.io/15-openssf-community In this episode of CHAOSScast, we have a special crossover episode with the GR-OSS OUT podcast, hosted by Tabatha DiDomenico from G-Research and featuring special guest Stacey Potter, Community Manager at the Open Source Security Foundation (OpenSSF). Stacey shares her journey into open source, which started in software license compliance and marketing before she found her passion in community-building through projects like Weaveworks and the Cloud Native Computing Foundation (CNCF) ecosystem. Her experience spans the full project lifecycle from early-stage incubation to graduation, giving her a unique perspective on how healthy, sustainable open source communities grow. A central theme of the conversation is what makes open source communities truly welcoming. Stacey emphasizes the importance of clear documentation, accessible contribution guidelines, well-labeled “good first issues,” and, above all, kindness. Reducing the fear of “doing it wrong” is critical, especially for newcomers who may feel intimidated by contributing code in public. Creating psychological safety helps transform curiosity into long-term participation, and contributors feel mentored rather than judged. Community health, she notes, is fundamentally about people, not just processes or tooling. The discussion also explores how marketing skills translate into community leadership. Stacey reflects on the difference between top-down messaging aimed at executives and bottom-up engagement with developers. Understanding your audience, meeting contributors where they are, and fostering authentic relationships are essential to building trust. At OpenSSF, she is helping shift perceptions so contributors understand that participation is open to everyone, not just member organizations. She also believes it's important to support education initiatives and strengthen developer experience across projects. Finally, Stacey highlights several OpenSSF initiatives and projects that could benefit from broader community involvement, including Scorecard, Minder, and OpenVEX. She also previews upcoming events and a new ambassador program designed to make open source security more accessible, and even fun! The episode closes with encouragement for listeners to get involved, contribute to the projects they rely on, and help build secure, welcoming open source ecosystems. Links:
CHAOSS
GR-OSS OUT podcast
G-Research
G-Research vacancies
Open Source Security Foundation (OpenSSF)
OpenSSF Training & Education
Linux Foundation
Scorecard
Sigstore
SLSA (Supply-chain Levels for Software Artifacts)
Minder
OpenVEX
Cloud Native Computing Foundation (CNCF)
Flux
Kubernetes
KubeCon + CloudNativeCon North America
OpenSSF Community Day KoreaSpecial Guests: Stacey Potter and Tabatha DiDomenico.Support CHAOSScast

Jessica Fain is a product leader at Webflow and former Chief of Staff to the CPO at Slack, where she worked alongside April Underwood and many past podcast guests including Stewart Butterfield, Annie Pearl, Tamar Yehoshua, and Noah Weiss. She’s spent her career learning how executives actually make decisions—and why most people completely misunderstand the process.We discuss:1. Why great ideas often don’t get buy-in2. Why executive calendars are “like strobe lights” and why the first 30 seconds of a meeting matter so much3. Why executives are usually optimizing for a global maximum while you are often optimizing locally4. The best question Jessica uses when a leader says something that seems wrong: “That’s so interesting. What led you to believe that?”5. Why you should go in to learn, not to convince6. Why showing only one option is a mistake7. Why AI will make influence more important, not less—Brought to you by:Omni—AI analytics your customers can trustLovable—Build apps by simply chatting with AIVanta—Automate compliance, manage risk, and accelerate trust with AI—Episode transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-art-of-influence-jessica-fain—Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0—Where to find Jessica Fain:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-fain-79b8989—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Jessica Fain(03:53) Why influence is the highest-leverage skill in product(04:47) Why great ideas fail without executive buy-in(06:00) How executives actually think(09:05) The fundamentals: context-setting, communication, and empathy(10:22) Stop pitching for approval—start co-creating with execs(12:59) Influence vs. politics (and why people get it wrong)(15:44) How to disagree with execs without losing trust(17:20) Going in to learn, not to convince(19:08) How to present ideas(26:05) The Minto-style approach and tailoring your communication to each exec(28:22) Why Jessica doesn’t like the question “What’s top of mind for you?”(30:24) Understanding incentives to unlock buy-in(32:10) Aligning product work with company strategy(35:10) Quick summary(37:31) Disarming the executive(40:49) Speed matters: why fast follow-up builds momentum(43:32) How to run high-impact meetings (the 60-second rule)(47:00) Why influencing execs is part of your job(49:15) Asking for more resources and thinking in 10x bets(52:23) What to do when your idea gets rejected(54:18) Clarifying information(56:50) How to build trust and make ideas stick(58:30) Shrinking big ideas into experiments(01:02:27) Common mistakes people make when influencing leaders(01:06:00) How to grow into your next role(01:09:32) How AI is changing influence and product work(01:17:55) Using AI to simulate exec feedback and improve pitches(01:21:15) Protecting our brains from overwhelm(01:22:44) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• Box: https://www.box.com• Slack: https://slack.com• Brightwheel: https://mybrightwheel.com• Webflow: https://webflow.com• April Underwood on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprilunderwood• Lessons in product leadership and AI strategy from Glean, Google, Amazon, and Slack | Tamar Yehoshua (Product at Glean, ex-Google and Slack): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/you-dont-need-to-be-a-well-run-company-to-win-tamar-yehoshua• Atlassian: https://www.atlassian.com• Behind the scenes of Calendly’s rapid growth | Annie Pearl (CPO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-scenes-of-calendlys-rapid• Calendly: https://calendly.com• Glassdoor: https://www.glassdoor.co.in/index.htm• The 10 traits of great PMs, how AI will impact your product, and Slack’s product development process | Noah Weiss (Slack, Foursquare, Google): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-10-traits-of-great-pms-how-ai• Ethan Eismann on X: https://x.com/eeismann• Slack founder: Mental models for building products people love ft. Stewart Butterfield: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/slack-founder-stewart-butterfield• Ilan Frank on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ilanfrank• Checkr: https://checkr.com• Ali Rayl on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alirayl• Rachel Wolan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelwolan• How Webflow’s CPO built an AI chief of staff to manage her calendar, prep for meetings, and drive AI adoption | Rachel Wolan: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-webflows-cpo-built-an-ai-chief• Barbara Minto’s website: https://www.barbaraminto.com• How Slack invests in big little details through Customer Love Sprints: https://slack.design/articles/sweating-the-small-stuff• Building product at Stripe: craft, metrics, and customer obsession | Jeff Weinstein (Product lead): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-product-at-stripe-jeff-weinstein• The Enneagram Institute: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-descriptions• The Pitt on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/The-Pitt-Season-1/dp/B0DNRR8QWD• Towel warmer: https://www.amazon.com/FLYHIT-Large-Towel-Warmer-Bathroom/dp/B0CB5K34L2• Casa: https://getcasa.com• Jimi Hendrix: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimi_Hendrix• Greek Theatre: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Theatre_(Los_Angeles)—Recommended books:• Pachinko: https://www.amazon.com/Pachinko-National-Book-Award-Finalist/dp/1455563927• Homegoing: https://www.amazon.com/Homegoing-Yaa-Gyasi/dp/1101971061• A History of Burning: https://www.amazon.com/History-Burning-Janika-Oza/dp/1538724243• The Overstory: https://www.amazon.com/Overstory-Novel-Richard-Powers/dp/039335668X—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

Jacob Warwick is an executive negotiation coach who helps senior operators negotiate better salary, equity, titles, and severance packages. He has worked with leaders across tech and Hollywood, was previously a founder and CEO himself, and has helped clients secure millions in additional compensation. His approach focuses on collaboration over confrontation, understanding motivations, and treating job searches like enterprise sales processes.We discuss:1. Why a simple “What’s the chance there’s a little more here?” often unlocks a 20% bump2. Why Jacob sees 40% average movement when negotiations are run well3. When negotiation actually starts (hint: it’s much earlier than you think)4. Why information + timing create power5. The biggest mistakes people make when negotiating6. How to navigate the important “What’s your comp expectation?” question without anchoring too low7. Why the best interviews feel more like discovery calls than interrogations—Brought to you by:Orkes—The enterprise platform for reliable applications and agentic workflowsMercury—Radically different bankingOmni—AI analytics your customers can trust—Episode transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-tactical-playbook-for-getting-more-comp—Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0—Where to find Jacob Warwick:• Substack: https://www.execsandthecity.com• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ExecsandtheCity• Website: https://www.thinkwarwick.com• Complete Job Search Course: https://www.execsandthecity.com/p/complete-job-search-course—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Jacob Warwick(04:12) How much comp people leave on the table(07:52) Why you shouldn’t feel greedy asking for more(09:45) What founders should know about negotiation(13:03) How Jacob works behind the scenes(15:35) The biggest mistakes people make when negotiating(19:30) Home-field advantage and controlling the conversation(23:02) The step-by-step approach to negotiating an offer(30:17) Jacob’s passion and why these tips don’t work on kids(32:04) Who should speak first about compensation(35:36) Understanding power(39:52) Breaking out of salary bands by focusing on pain points(45:45) Brief summary(47:20) Selling the vacation: How to visualize success(50:07) Controlling the narrative and planting seeds(59:01) Jacob’s role as hype man(01:01:05) Positioning yourself like a product(01:02:49) Making the process frictionless for hiring managers(01:06:20) Flipping the interview to extract information(01:12:17) Five tactical tips for negotiating comp(01:21:45) What to do when negotiations fall apart(01:25:05) Why negotiation is different for every individual(01:28:55) Why outcomes aren’t predetermined(01:32:52) Wild Hollywood negotiation stories(01:37:35) The first step you should take after getting an offer(01:40:30) Jacob’s personal mission(01:44:42) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• The ultimate guide to negotiating your comp: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-negotiating• Sam Altman on X: https://x.com/sama• Tom Brady on X: https://x.com/TomBrady• Career Huddle: Interview & Negotiation Master Class with Jacob Warwick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgjWTiSj8E8• Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com• Julia Roberts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Roberts• Matt Damon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Damon• Steven Spielberg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Spielberg• Marc Andreessen: The real AI boom hasn’t even started yet: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/marc-andreessen-the-real-ai-boom• Chris Voss’s quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/10181396-remember-never-be-so-sure-of-what-you-want-that• Chris Voss on X: https://x.com/fbinegotiator• Werewolf: https://playwerewolf.co• Modes of persuasion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modes_of_persuasion• How to use tactical empathy: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/christophervoss_tacticalempathy-negotiation-customerexperience-activity-7361004118808670212-oeRy• ZOPA, BATNA and Win-Win in Negotiation: https://www.parallelprojecttraining.com/blog/zopa-batna-and-win-win-in-negotiation• Marvel: https://www.marvel.com• Negotiation Made Simple podcast: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2227030• Luca on Disney+: https://www.disneyplus.com/browse/entity-f28b825f-c207-406b-923a-67f85e6d90e0• Minuscule: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minuscule• Claude Cowork: https://claude.com/product/cowork• Macrofactor: https://macrofactor.com• Whoop: https://www.whoop.com• Gemini: https://gemini.google.com/app• The Cody Dieruf Foundation: https://breathinisbelievin.org• Cystic Fibrosis Foundation: https://www.cff.org—Recommended books:• Negotiation Games: https://www.amazon.com/Negotiation-Games-Routledge-Advances-Theory/dp/0415308941• Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion: https://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Robert-Cialdini/dp/006124189X• You Can Negotiate Anything: How to Get What You Want: https://www.amazon.com/You-Negotiate-Anything-Herb-Cohen/dp/0806541229• Negotiation Made Simple: A Practical Guide for Solving Problems, Building Relationships, and Delivering the Deal: https://www.amazon.com/Negotiation-Made-Simple-Relationships-Delivering/dp/1400336325• Radical Candor: Be a Kick-Ass Boss Without Losing Your Humanity: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Candor-Kick-Ass-Without-Humanity/dp/1250103509• High Output Management: https://www.amazon.com/High-Output-Management-Andrew-Grove/dp/0679762884• How to Win Friends and Influence People: https://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671027034—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

People have been asking me to sit on the other side of the mic for a long time. With my wife’s debut children’s book, Charts for Babies, coming out next month, we figured: why not do it together? What followed was one of the most honest conversations I’ve had on this podcast. Michelle asked things no one else would think to ask—and many things I’ve never shared publicly. You’ll hear about the specific moments that pushed me to start the newsletter, how I think about quality and iteration, what most stresses me out, and the scariest moment of my life. This was so fun, and so special, and I hope you like it.We discuss:1. The collection of moments that led me to what I do now2. When I added a paywall, and how I knew it was working3. The hidden treadmill behind shipping a newsletter post and podcast episode every week4. The most stressful moments I’ve had in business and in life5. How I think about stress, consistency, and keeping the business small—Pre-order Charts for Babies: https://www.amazon.com/Charts-Babies-Picture-Book/dp/1419785184—Brought to you by:WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs: https://workos.com/lennyMetaview—The AI platform for recruiting: https://metaview.ai/lennyDX—The developer intelligence platform designed by leading researchers: https://getdx.com/lenny—Episode transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-i-built-a-1m-subscriber-newsletter—Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0—Where to find Michelle Rial:• X: https://x.com/TheRialMichelle• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michellerial• Website: https://www.michellerial.com—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction and role reversal(04:06) What would Lenny be doing without the newsletter?(07:20) The moments that led to starting the newsletter(09:58) Does Lenny still enjoy the work?(12:42) Stress management and misophonia(14:00) The psychedelic trip that changed everything(15:45) Online happiness course and baseline optimization(17:30) Thunder round: Lenny’s misophonia worst sounds(20:20) What makes Michelle’s charts so shareable(23:55) Where chart ideas come from (and why meditation helps)(26:59) Where does “Lenny” come from?(28:54) Being recognized in public(31:24) Early projects(36:30) Michelle and Lenny’s yin and yang(37:49) Missing office culture (but not really)(39:37) Lenny’s face blindness(40:47) The $100M fraud attack story(42:50) Michelle’s childbirth emergency(47:22) Michelle’s creative process(51:58) Lenny’s favorite children’s books(54:00) Product management lessons in parenting(55:31) Defining product management in five words(58:23) Why Michelle pivoted to children’s books(01:01:30) The power of iteration and real experience—Resources and episode mentions: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-i-built-a-1m-subscriber-newsletter—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

What happens when your referral program participants are literally trained to find holes in systems? How do you protect your program without making it so complicated that nobody wants to use it? To explore this, we welcome Mariana Doncel to The Advocacy Channel. Mariana leads B2C product marketing at Hack the Box, a cybersecurity training platform where users learn ethical hacking through hands-on challenges. When your customers spend their days breaking into systems for fun, you learn pretty quickly what actually works for fraud prevention. In this episode, Mariana and host Will Fraser get into the reality of protecting your referral program from abuse. Spoiler: it's not about building an airtight system with rules for every scenario. Mariana shares the pragmatic approach Hack the Box has taken, focusing on damage control and smart incentive design rather than trying to prevent every possible exploit. In this episode, Mariana walks us through: Why trying to close every possible loophole often backfires by making your program too complex for legitimate users The "accept and mitigate" approach: acknowledging that some people will try to game the system while capping your exposure How tying rewards to actual monetary actions creates natural fraud deterrence Setting per-person limits so even if someone does find a workaround, the damage is contained Thinking about fraud prevention as risk analysis rather than absolute protection How to balance moving fast with protecting your program from abuse Mariana also shares how this mindset extends beyond referral programs to everything her marketing team puts out at Hack the Box, where every campaign has to account for users who will look for alternative interpretations. Connect with Mariana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marianadoncel/  Connect with us:  Get more customer marketing insights and strategies at impact.com/blog/  Connect with host Will on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/wifraser/   Have a question? Suggestion? Email us at advocacychannel@impact.com   Loving this show? Explore impact.com's other podcasts packed with insights: The Partnership Economy The Publisher's Playbook

Want to build a customer advisory board that actually drives business value? Struggling to figure out where to start or how to prove the ROI? To help, we welcome Cate Vanasse to The Advocacy Channel. Cate leads customer marketing at TalkDesk, where her team's mission is "igniting raving fans, driving growth, and building customers for life."  With extensive experience building and scaling customer advisory boards across multiple companies, Cate shares her practical framework for creating CABs that strengthen relationships, influence revenue, and create real brand advocates. In this episode, Cate walks us through: How to identify the right CAB members by balancing ideal account logos with the right human personalities in the room The art of balancing "give vs get" so it doesn't feel transactional Why in-person meetings matter for executive CABs versus when virtual works better for technical advisory boards Cate also shares insights from TalkDesk's CX Innovators Awards program, including how industry recognition has helped customers get promoted and secure internal resources.  Her closing advice? The best customer marketing programs don't start with a spreadsheet. They start with empathy. Connect with Cate on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catevanasse/  Connect with us:  Get more customer marketing insights and strategies at impact.com/blog/  Connect with host Will on LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/wifraser/  Have a question? Suggestion? Email us at advocacychannel@impact.com  Loving this show? Explore impact.com's other podcasts packed with insights: The Partnership Economy The Publisher's Playbook  

Want your referral program to succeed?  Start with the foundation first. Make sure your product infrastructure is solid and can handle growth before you launch. In this episode, we're excited to welcome Ashley Stead, Director, Growth Product at Nesto Group, a leading Canadian tech company building the mortgage ecosystem of the future. With over 15 years of experience spanning product management, UX research, marketing, and operations, Ashley brings a unique full-stack perspective to customer marketing and advocacy initiatives. In this episode, Ashley and our host Will Fraser dive into what it means to think about advocacy as infrastructure rather than one-off campaigns. Ashley shares her framework for creating product-led advocacy programs that integrate seamlessly into the customer journey.  From understanding the "micro-yeses" approach to breaking down complex customer paths, to navigating build vs. buy decisions and fostering collaboration between marketing and development teams, this conversation is packed with practical insights. In this episode, you'll discover: How to map customer journeys and identify the right moments for advocacy messaging without competing with other business priorities.  The framework for deciding when to build custom solutions versus buying existing platforms, and how to create hybrid approaches.  Strategies for empowering marketing teams to move quickly while keeping technical infrastructure robust and scalable.  The importance of breaking down big conversions into micro-yeses and understanding the data behind each step.  How to use AI tools and prompts to become more full-stack in your marketing role, even without technical resources. Listen to this episode to hear more about how infrastructure thinking can transform your advocacy programs and help you avoid the common mistakes marketers make with referral programs.  Connect with Ashley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashley-stead/ AI prompt from Ashley: The Advocacy Channel | Season 2 Episode 9 AI Prompt Connect with us:  Get more customer marketing insights and strategies at impact.com/blog/  Connect with host Will on LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/wifraser/  Have a question? Suggestion? Email us at advocacychannel@impact.com  Loving this show? Explore impact.com's other podcasts packed with insights: The Partnership Economy The Publisher's Playbook