Podcasts from around the Web

After 30 years in marketing, Melissa Puls, CMO and SVP, Customer Success & Renewals at Ivanti, has seen it all: the highs, the lows, and the evolution of marketing itself. In this episode, she shares how she’s built her career around people-first leadership, purpose-driven strategy, and performance that actually moves the business forward. Melissa breaks down why B2B and B2C are outdated concepts, why it’s time to think “business-to-human,” and how aligning marketing, customer success, and renewals can transform growth. She also opens up about lessons learned from failure, how AI is reshaping efficiency and personalization, and why transparency and data-driven decisions are a CMO’s real superpowers. Whether you’re a rising marketing leader or a seasoned exec, this episode delivers practical insights on building teams, earning trust, and driving measurable impact across the entire customer lifecycle.

What if marketing didn’t just support company strategy, but shaped it from the start? 8x8 CMO Bruno Bertini breaks down how today’s marketing leaders can elevate their role through goal-driven alignment, end-to-end customer experience, and real-world applications of AI. Bruno shares his approach to building marketing-led OKRs, driving measurable outcomes like LTV and retention, and using AI to streamline enrichment, targeting, and creative production. It’s a must-listen for CMOs who want to operate as true business leaders and make marketing central to growth.

How do you thrive in private equity while maintaining local autonomy and driving growth? Meghann McNally, CMO of Wrench Group, shares her unique approach to leading marketing in a fast-growing, private equity-backed company. From scaling brand strategies in 27 markets across 14 states to navigating the challenges of a male-dominated industry, Meghann emphasizes the importance of hands-on leadership and data-driven decision-making. She also reveals how fostering curiosity, maintaining local connections, and balancing efficiency with personal touch have been key to Wrench Group’s success.

In this episode of the State of Customer Storytelling podcast, DailyPay Director of Client Advocacy Maria Braune shares how to truly listen to your customers and get the best testimonials possible.

In this episode of the State of Customer Storytelling podcast, Chief Outsiders Partner and CMO Jeff Loeb shares how to gather customer insights and share them with the rest of your team.

In this episode of the State of Customer Storytelling podcast, Airtable Customer Marketing Programs lead Valeria Gomez shares how to show love to your customers the way you want them to show love to your company.

Thank you to the folks at Sustain for providing the hosting account for CHAOSScast! CHAOSScast – Episode 128
In this episode of CHAOSScast, host Harmony Elendu is joined by Matt Germonprez and Johan Linåker to explore how Open Source Program Offices (OSPOs) can use metrics to understand and demonstrate impact. The discussion centers around Chapter 6 of the TODO Group’s OSPO book and how organizations can systematically measure the value of their open source engagement. [00:02:00] Introduction to OSPOs
Johan explains what an Open Source Program Office (OSPO) is: a center of excellence that supports organizations in adopting open source strategically, aligning culture, governance, and business goals. [00:04:41] The Four Impact Areas
Matt outlines the four key impact dimensions OSPOs should measure: Partner Impact Community Impact Ecosystem (Supply Chain) Impact Organizational Impact [00:06:29] Partner Impact
How to assess which companies are contributing to the same projects, their level of influence, and how agendas align or conflict. [00:11:00] Community Impact
Measuring contributor influence, merged pull requests, leadership roles, and employee growth within open source communities. [00:15:19] Ecosystem & Supply Chain Impact
Why organizations must evaluate upstream dependencies and long-term project viability, especially in light of regulations like the Cyber Resilience Act. [00:23:00] Organizational Impact & Governance
Aligning open source strategy with business goals, managing risk, automating dependency health checks, and enabling developers to contribute upstream efficiently. [00:29:31] Metrics Over Time (Not Snapshots)
Why there is no universal red/yellow/green metric set. Context matters, and observing trends over time is critical for meaningful health assessments. [00:36:00] Resources & Working Groups
Introduction to CHAOSS practitioner guides, OSPO metrics working groups, and research publications. Value Adds (Picks) of the week: [00:39:25] Harmony’s pick is reflecting on old photos.
[00:36:10] Matt's pick is embracing the opportunity to do winter sports.
[00:37:54] Johan’s pick is to enjoy parenting moments.
Panelists:

Harmony Elendu
Matt Germonprez Guests
Johan Linåker Links
OSPO Book
TODO Group
CHAOSS Project
OpenSSF Scorecard
CHAOSS OSPO Metrics Working Group
Harmony Elendu website
Harmony Elendu LinkedInSpecial Guest: Johan Linåker.Support CHAOSScast

Thank you to the folks at Sustain for providing the hosting account for CHAOSSCast! CHAOSScast- Episode 128
Check out the original GR-OSS OUT episode on the GR-OSS OUT podcast:
https://podcast.gr-oss.io/15-openssf-community In this episode of CHAOSScast, we have a special crossover episode with the GR-OSS OUT podcast, hosted by Tabatha DiDomenico from G-Research and featuring special guest Stacey Potter, Community Manager at the Open Source Security Foundation (OpenSSF). Stacey shares her journey into open source, which started in software license compliance and marketing before she found her passion in community-building through projects like Weaveworks and the Cloud Native Computing Foundation (CNCF) ecosystem. Her experience spans the full project lifecycle from early-stage incubation to graduation, giving her a unique perspective on how healthy, sustainable open source communities grow. A central theme of the conversation is what makes open source communities truly welcoming. Stacey emphasizes the importance of clear documentation, accessible contribution guidelines, well-labeled “good first issues,” and, above all, kindness. Reducing the fear of “doing it wrong” is critical, especially for newcomers who may feel intimidated by contributing code in public. Creating psychological safety helps transform curiosity into long-term participation, and contributors feel mentored rather than judged. Community health, she notes, is fundamentally about people, not just processes or tooling. The discussion also explores how marketing skills translate into community leadership. Stacey reflects on the difference between top-down messaging aimed at executives and bottom-up engagement with developers. Understanding your audience, meeting contributors where they are, and fostering authentic relationships are essential to building trust. At OpenSSF, she is helping shift perceptions so contributors understand that participation is open to everyone, not just member organizations. She also believes it's important to support education initiatives and strengthen developer experience across projects. Finally, Stacey highlights several OpenSSF initiatives and projects that could benefit from broader community involvement, including Scorecard, Minder, and OpenVEX. She also previews upcoming events and a new ambassador program designed to make open source security more accessible, and even fun! The episode closes with encouragement for listeners to get involved, contribute to the projects they rely on, and help build secure, welcoming open source ecosystems. Links:
CHAOSS
GR-OSS OUT podcast
G-Research
G-Research vacancies
Open Source Security Foundation (OpenSSF)
OpenSSF Training & Education
Linux Foundation
Scorecard
Sigstore
SLSA (Supply-chain Levels for Software Artifacts)
Minder
OpenVEX
Cloud Native Computing Foundation (CNCF)
Flux
Kubernetes
KubeCon + CloudNativeCon North America
OpenSSF Community Day KoreaSpecial Guests: Stacey Potter and Tabatha DiDomenico.Support CHAOSScast

Thank you to the folks at Sustain for providing the hosting account for CHAOSScast! CHAOSScast – Episode 127 In this episode of CHAOSScast, host Alice is joined by Matt Trifiro from the Commercial Open Source Startup Alliance (COSSA) and Daniel Izquierdo, CEO of Bitergia and co-founder of the CHAOSS Community. The discussion delves into the importance of open source community health metrics in shaping successful commercial strategies for startups. Matt shares COSSA's mission to support the growth of venture-funded open source projects by fostering collaboration among founders, investors, and customers. Daniel discusses how community health can influence the sustainability and innovation of projects. They also explore the future goals of COSSA, including establishing a working group to develop standardized metrics for evaluating community contributions and business value. Press download now to hear more! [00:00:29] Matt and Daniel introduce themselves and their backgrounds. [00:01:56] Matt explains COSSA’s mission. [00:02:58] Matt cites evidence that community health can correlate with business outcomes and that investment can improve community indicators, and there’s a discussion on moving beyond vanity metrics like GitHub stars. [00:05:13] Daniel shares his perspective from the Open Compliance Summit (Tokyo) and the supply chain/corporate lens: organizations want confidence the software will be safe and still maintained years from now, and he talks about measuring health via collaboration networks. [00:08:34] Matt breaks value into two buckets: Distribution and IP/innovation to explain how open source communities create startup value. Daniel adds that open source and can reduce procurement friction. [00:12:23] They touch on open source as a path to standards. [00:14:50] Matt describes how COSSA supports the startups: education, best practices, and measurement and his goal is to “convert community metrics into dollars.” Daniel notes the need for a baseline framework, then customization by industry. [00:19:38] What’s next for COSSA? Matt shares COSSA is being bootstrapped, received initial Linux Foundation support, and is pursuing seed style funding. His planned membership structure is investors, founders, and customers. [00:20:36] Daniel and Matt discuss making the metric framework transparent, likely anchored via CHAOSS, and the goal to building a “Rosetta Stone” between investors and community. [00:25:49] There’s a conversation on rug pulls, incentives, and lack of a shared framework.

[00:28:21] Matt describes the “covenant” concept. [00:30:34] Alice wraps with mentioning COSSA’s direction is clear, and a working group could be on the ramp for broader community participation. Value Adds (Picks) of the week: [00:31:20] Alice’s pick is visiting outdoor Christmas light displays after dark.
[00:32:27] Matt’s pick is his oldest son’s finishing his first semester in college.
[00:32:58] Daniel’s pick is his son finishing his first quarter at primary school and going to the Open Compliance Summit and thanking Shane Coughlan for all his work for many years running this event. Panelist:

Alice Sowerby Guests:

Matt Trifiro

Daniel Izquierdo Links:

CHAOSS

CHAOSS Project X

CHAOSScast Podcast

CHAOSS YouTube

podcast@chaoss.community

Alice Sowerby LinkedIn

Matt Trifiro LinkedIn

COSSA

Daniel Izquierdo LinkedIn

Bitergia

Christmas Lights at Stourhead

Rapturous Delight: after-dark Worcester, Worcestershire

The State of Commercial Open Source 2025 (The Linux Foundation)Special Guest: Matt Trifiro.Support CHAOSScast

People have been asking me to sit on the other side of the mic for a long time. With my wife’s debut children’s book, Charts for Babies, coming out next month, we figured: why not do it together? What followed was one of the most honest conversations I’ve had on this podcast. Michelle asked things no one else would think to ask—and many things I’ve never shared publicly. You’ll hear about the specific moments that pushed me to start the newsletter, how I think about quality and iteration, what most stresses me out, and the scariest moment of my life. This was so fun, and so special, and I hope you like it.We discuss:1. The collection of moments that led me to what I do now2. When I added a paywall, and how I knew it was working3. The hidden treadmill behind shipping a newsletter post and podcast episode every week4. The most stressful moments I’ve had in business and in life5. How I think about stress, consistency, and keeping the business small—Pre-order Charts for Babies: https://www.amazon.com/Charts-Babies-Picture-Book/dp/1419785184—Brought to you by:WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs: https://workos.com/lennyMetaview—The AI platform for recruiting: https://metaview.ai/lennyDX—The developer intelligence platform designed by leading researchers: https://getdx.com/lenny—Episode transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-i-built-a-1m-subscriber-newsletter—Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0—Where to find Michelle Rial:• X: https://x.com/TheRialMichelle• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michellerial• Website: https://www.michellerial.com—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction and role reversal(04:06) What would Lenny be doing without the newsletter?(07:20) The moments that led to starting the newsletter(09:58) Does Lenny still enjoy the work?(12:42) Stress management and misophonia(14:00) The psychedelic trip that changed everything(15:45) Online happiness course and baseline optimization(17:30) Thunder round: Lenny’s misophonia worst sounds(20:20) What makes Michelle’s charts so shareable(23:55) Where chart ideas come from (and why meditation helps)(26:59) Where does “Lenny” come from?(28:54) Being recognized in public(31:24) Early projects(36:30) Michelle and Lenny’s yin and yang(37:49) Missing office culture (but not really)(39:37) Lenny’s face blindness(40:47) The $100M fraud attack story(42:50) Michelle’s childbirth emergency(47:22) Michelle’s creative process(51:58) Lenny’s favorite children’s books(54:00) Product management lessons in parenting(55:31) Defining product management in five words(58:23) Why Michelle pivoted to children’s books(01:01:30) The power of iteration and real experience—Resources and episode mentions: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-i-built-a-1m-subscriber-newsletter—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

Qasar Younis is the co-founder and CEO of Applied Intuition, a $15 billion AI company that adds intelligence to cars, tractors, planes, submarines, and other vehicles—essentially, Tesla or Waymo without the hardware. He was previously COO of Y Combinator, started his career as an engineer at GM and Bosch, and was born on a farm in Pakistan.We discuss:1. Why the biggest AI revolution will play out in mining, farming, construction, and trucking over the next 5 to 10 years, not in software2. Why Qasar intentionally stayed under the radar for nearly a decade while building Applied Intuition, and why most founders shouldn’t do that3. The truth about China’s AI capabilities and why comparisons to American companies are fundamentally flawed4. The company values that drive Applied Intuition: speed above everything, laugh a lot, half the work is follow-up, never disappoint the customer5. The biggest lessons from Qasar’s stint as YC’s COO, including that the most successful companies show traction very early6. How reading old books is the best way to build taste—Brought to you by:Omni—AI analytics your customers can trustVanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security.Lovable—Build apps by simply chatting with AI—Episode transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-most-successful-ai-company-youve-never-heard-of—Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0—Where to find Qasar Younis:• X: https://x.com/qasar• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/qasar• Website: https://qy.co• Reading list: https://qy.co/books—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Qasar and Applied Intuition(04:01) The optimistic vision: How AI will create abundance(08:49) Why anxiety about AI comes from misunderstanding—and how to fight fear with knowledge(12:58) The market sell-off explained(16:31) Self-driving cars: Why 30,000 annual deaths prove we need autonomy now(20:22) The spectrum of physical AI(28:00) How AI is coming just in time(33:26) Why comparing Chinese AI companies to American AI companies is a category error(39:12) Why Qasar finally joined Twitter after staying silent for a decade(45:08) Why successful companies almost always show early signs of traction(50:40) Applied Intuition’s core values(56:00) Why the company cleans its own office—and never spent a dollar of raised capital(58:50) Quasar’s reading philosophy(01:06:14) How to operationalize listening to naysayers(01:12:53) The importance of decisiveness(01:14:55) Removing emotions from decisions(01:19:02) Why most Silicon Valley CEOs don’t have great taste—and how to develop it—Referenced:• Applied Intuition: https://www.appliedintuition.com• Marc Andreessen: The real AI boom hasn’t even started yet: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/marc-andreessen-the-real-ai-boom• Elad Gil’s website: https://eladgil.com• Bosch: https://www.bosch.com• Berkshire Hathaway: https://www.berkshirehathaway.com• Naval Ravikant on X: https://x.com/naval• Y Combinator: https://www.ycombinator.com• Waymo: https://waymo.com/• Tesla: https://www.tesla.com• DeepSeek: https://www.deepseek.com• Rivian: https://rivian.com• Crate & Barrel: https://www.crateandbarrel.com• OpenClaw: https://openclaw.ai• Sam Altman on X: https://x.com/sama• Peter Ludwig on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterwludwig• What Steve Jobs really meant when he said ‘Good artists copy; great artists steal’: https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/what-steve-jobs-really-meant-when-he-said-good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal• 7 quotes on the power of reading from Charlie Munger: https://www.neil.blog/articles/7-quotes-power-reading-charlie-munger• Andreessen Horowitz: https://a16z.com• John Doerr on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-doerr-03248211• Gandhi’s quote: https://www.azquotes.com/author/5308-Mahatma_Gandhi/tag/truth#google_vignette• Steve Ballmer on X: https://x.com/Steven_Ballmer• General Motors: https://www.gm.com—Recommended books:• House of Huawei: The Secret History of China’s Most Powerful Company: https://www.amazon.com/House-Huawei-History-Powerful-Company/dp/0593544633• Maintenance: Of Everything, Part One: https://press.stripe.com/maintenance-part-one• The Autobiography of Malcolm X: As Told to Alex Haley: https://www.amazon.com/Autobiography-Malcolm-Told-Alex-Haley/dp/0345350685• High Output Management: https://www.amazon.com/High-Output-Management-Andrew-Grove/dp/0679762884• The Emperor of All Maladies: A Biography of Cancer: https://www.amazon.com/Emperor-All-Maladies-Biography-Cancer/dp/1439170916• Made in America: https://www.amazon.com/Sam-Walton-Made-America/dp/0553562835• My American Journey: https://www.amazon.com/American-Journey-Autobiography-Colin-Powell/dp/0679432965• Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies: https://www.amazon.com/Guns-Germs-Steel-Fates-Societies/dp/0393317552• Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed: https://www.amazon.com/Collapse-Societies-Choose-Succeed-Revised/dp/0143117009• SPQR: A History of Ancient Rome: https://www.amazon.com/SPQR-History-Ancient-Mary-Beard/dp/0871404230• A World Appears: A Journey into Consciousness: https://www.amazon.com/World-Appears-Journey-into-Consciousness/dp/198488199X—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

Jenny Wen leads design for Claude at Anthropic. Prior to this, she was Director of Design at Figma, where she led the teams behind FigJam and Slides. Before that, she was a designer at Dropbox, Square, and Shopify.—We discuss:1. Why the classic discovery → mock → iterate design process is becoming obsolete2. What a day in the life of a designer at Anthropic looks like, including her AI tool stack3. Whether AI will eventually surpass humans in taste and judgment4. Why Jenny left a director role at Figma to return to IC work at Anthropic5. The three archetypes Jenny is hiring for now6. Why chatbot interfaces may be more durable than most people expect—Brought to you by:Mercury—Radically different banking: https://mercury.com/?utm_source=lennys&utm_medium=sponsored_newsletter&utm_campaign=26q1_brand_campaignOrkes—The enterprise platform for reliable applications and agentic workflows: https://www.orkes.io/Omni—AI analytics your customers can trust: https://omni.co/lenny—Episode transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-design-process-is-dead—Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0—Where to find Jenny Wen:• X: https://x.com/jenny_wen• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennywen• Substack: https://jennywen.substack.com• Website: https://jennywen.ca—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Jenny Wen(04:23) Why the traditional design process is dead(06:33) The two new types of design work(10:00) How widespread this shift will be(13:00) Day-to-day life as a designer at Anthropic(18:45) Jenny’s AI stack(20:03) Why Figma still matters for exploration(22:25) Advice for working with engineers(24:19) How to maintain craft, quality, and trust in the AI era(27:35) Will AI ever have “taste”?(31:38) The future of chatbot interfaces(35:33) Moving from director back to IC(41:00) The 10-day build of Claude Cowork(46:06) Hiring: the three archetypes(50:44) Advice for new and senior designers(54:42) The value of “low leverage” tasks for managers(57:52) Why the best teams roast each other(01:01:45) The legibility framework(01:07:22) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• Figma: https://www.figma.com• Anthropic: https://www.anthropic.com• v0: https://v0.app• Navigating a Design Career with Jenny Wen | Figma at Waterloo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHcBPMh2ivk• Claude Cowork: https://claude.com/product/cowork• Use Claude Code in VS Code: https://code.claude.com/docs/en/vs-code• Claude Code in Slack: https://code.claude.com/docs/en/slack• Lex Fridman’s website: https://lexfridman.com• Head of Claude Code: What happens after coding is solved | Boris Cherny: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/head-of-claude-code-what-happens• OpenClaw: https://openclaw.ai• OpenAI’s CPO on how AI changes must-have skills, moats, coding, startup playbooks, more | Kevin Weil (CPO at OpenAI, ex-Instagram, Twitter): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/kevin-weil-open-ai• Marc Andreessen: The real AI boom hasn’t even started yet: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/marc-andreessen-the-real-ai-boom• Socratica: https://www.socratica.info• Anthropic’s CPO on what comes next | Mike Krieger (co-founder of Instagram): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropics-cpo-heres-what-comes-next• Radical Candor: From theory to practice with author Kim Scott: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/radical-candor-from-theory-to-practice• Evan Tana’s ‘legibility matrix’ on X: https://x.com/evantana/status/1927404374252269667• How to spot a top 1% startup early: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-spot-a-top-1-startup-early• Palantir: https://www.palantir.com• Stripe: https://stripe.com• Linear: https://linear.app• Notion: https://www.notion.com• Julie Zhuo’s website: https://www.juliezhuo.com• Sentimental Value: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt27714581• The Pitt on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/The-Pitt-Season-1/dp/B0DNRR8QWD• Noah Wyle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Wyle• ER on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B0FWZSDYRP• Retro: https://retro.app• Granola: https://www.granola.ai—Recommended books:• Radical Candor: Be a Kick-Ass Boss Without Losing Your Humanity: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Candor-Kick-Ass-Without-Humanity/dp/1250103509• The Power Broker: Robert Moses and the Fall of New York: https://www.amazon.com/Power-Broker-Robert-Moses-Fall/dp/0394480767• Insomniac City: New York, Oliver Sacks, and Me: https://www.amazon.com/Insomniac-City-New-York-Oliver/dp/162040494X—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

What happens when your referral program participants are literally trained to find holes in systems? How do you protect your program without making it so complicated that nobody wants to use it? To explore this, we welcome Mariana Doncel to The Advocacy Channel. Mariana leads B2C product marketing at Hack the Box, a cybersecurity training platform where users learn ethical hacking through hands-on challenges. When your customers spend their days breaking into systems for fun, you learn pretty quickly what actually works for fraud prevention. In this episode, Mariana and host Will Fraser get into the reality of protecting your referral program from abuse. Spoiler: it's not about building an airtight system with rules for every scenario. Mariana shares the pragmatic approach Hack the Box has taken, focusing on damage control and smart incentive design rather than trying to prevent every possible exploit. In this episode, Mariana walks us through: Why trying to close every possible loophole often backfires by making your program too complex for legitimate users The "accept and mitigate" approach: acknowledging that some people will try to game the system while capping your exposure How tying rewards to actual monetary actions creates natural fraud deterrence Setting per-person limits so even if someone does find a workaround, the damage is contained Thinking about fraud prevention as risk analysis rather than absolute protection How to balance moving fast with protecting your program from abuse Mariana also shares how this mindset extends beyond referral programs to everything her marketing team puts out at Hack the Box, where every campaign has to account for users who will look for alternative interpretations. Connect with Mariana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marianadoncel/  Connect with us:  Get more customer marketing insights and strategies at impact.com/blog/  Connect with host Will on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/wifraser/   Have a question? Suggestion? Email us at advocacychannel@impact.com   Loving this show? Explore impact.com's other podcasts packed with insights: The Partnership Economy The Publisher's Playbook

Want to build a customer advisory board that actually drives business value? Struggling to figure out where to start or how to prove the ROI? To help, we welcome Cate Vanasse to The Advocacy Channel. Cate leads customer marketing at TalkDesk, where her team's mission is "igniting raving fans, driving growth, and building customers for life."  With extensive experience building and scaling customer advisory boards across multiple companies, Cate shares her practical framework for creating CABs that strengthen relationships, influence revenue, and create real brand advocates. In this episode, Cate walks us through: How to identify the right CAB members by balancing ideal account logos with the right human personalities in the room The art of balancing "give vs get" so it doesn't feel transactional Why in-person meetings matter for executive CABs versus when virtual works better for technical advisory boards Cate also shares insights from TalkDesk's CX Innovators Awards program, including how industry recognition has helped customers get promoted and secure internal resources.  Her closing advice? The best customer marketing programs don't start with a spreadsheet. They start with empathy. Connect with Cate on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catevanasse/  Connect with us:  Get more customer marketing insights and strategies at impact.com/blog/  Connect with host Will on LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/wifraser/  Have a question? Suggestion? Email us at advocacychannel@impact.com  Loving this show? Explore impact.com's other podcasts packed with insights: The Partnership Economy The Publisher's Playbook  

Want your referral program to succeed?  Start with the foundation first. Make sure your product infrastructure is solid and can handle growth before you launch. In this episode, we're excited to welcome Ashley Stead, Director, Growth Product at Nesto Group, a leading Canadian tech company building the mortgage ecosystem of the future. With over 15 years of experience spanning product management, UX research, marketing, and operations, Ashley brings a unique full-stack perspective to customer marketing and advocacy initiatives. In this episode, Ashley and our host Will Fraser dive into what it means to think about advocacy as infrastructure rather than one-off campaigns. Ashley shares her framework for creating product-led advocacy programs that integrate seamlessly into the customer journey.  From understanding the "micro-yeses" approach to breaking down complex customer paths, to navigating build vs. buy decisions and fostering collaboration between marketing and development teams, this conversation is packed with practical insights. In this episode, you'll discover: How to map customer journeys and identify the right moments for advocacy messaging without competing with other business priorities.  The framework for deciding when to build custom solutions versus buying existing platforms, and how to create hybrid approaches.  Strategies for empowering marketing teams to move quickly while keeping technical infrastructure robust and scalable.  The importance of breaking down big conversions into micro-yeses and understanding the data behind each step.  How to use AI tools and prompts to become more full-stack in your marketing role, even without technical resources. Listen to this episode to hear more about how infrastructure thinking can transform your advocacy programs and help you avoid the common mistakes marketers make with referral programs.  Connect with Ashley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashley-stead/ AI prompt from Ashley: The Advocacy Channel | Season 2 Episode 9 AI Prompt Connect with us:  Get more customer marketing insights and strategies at impact.com/blog/  Connect with host Will on LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/wifraser/  Have a question? Suggestion? Email us at advocacychannel@impact.com  Loving this show? Explore impact.com's other podcasts packed with insights: The Partnership Economy The Publisher's Playbook